tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3702669429782703593.post4778032760777060387..comments2024-01-07T16:37:18.310+02:00Comments on StutterSense: Is stuttering a manifestation of TMS?Peter Louwhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11762124725640299873noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3702669429782703593.post-14212390450358566492017-05-11T03:20:09.082+02:002017-05-11T03:20:09.082+02:00Cheers Peter!Cheers Peter!Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11573913416415587225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3702669429782703593.post-38764101488053500082017-05-10T19:02:25.468+02:002017-05-10T19:02:25.468+02:00Hi Adam - Brian told me he's on leave for some...Hi Adam - Brian told me he's on leave for some weeks, but he wrote a lot of posts on his fluency improvement on the Facebook group "Stuttering as a mindbody disorder", so feel free to have a look at his many posts there.Peter Louwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11762124725640299873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3702669429782703593.post-68294980143426013562017-05-08T10:31:01.071+02:002017-05-08T10:31:01.071+02:00Great to hear it's helping so much Brian! Can ...Great to hear it's helping so much Brian! Can you tell us more about exactly what you're doing related to TMS thinking to lessen your stuttering?Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11573913416415587225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3702669429782703593.post-30477391852276836972017-05-04T03:35:03.892+02:002017-05-04T03:35:03.892+02:00Yes, TMS, Is definitely a mindbody syndrome, Nothi...Yes, TMS, Is definitely a mindbody syndrome, Nothing ever helped to reduce my blocks outside of TMS thinking! I'm healing from it at a nice pace! It's just amazing how true that stuttering is linked to a mindbody disorder! !Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00628397812758216744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3702669429782703593.post-11572144971255116192017-03-30T23:25:22.074+02:002017-03-30T23:25:22.074+02:00There is a free online TMS recovery programme whic...There is a free online TMS recovery programme which apparently is very good and which you may want to follow. You will just have to adjust the programme so that it applies to stuttering and not to pain. It's in the TMS Wiki: http://www.tmswiki.org/ppd/TMS_Recovery_ProgramPeter Louwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11762124725640299873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3702669429782703593.post-28609170043375524282017-03-30T19:22:30.046+02:002017-03-30T19:22:30.046+02:00I am willing to give it a go! However what kind of...I am willing to give it a go! However what kind of exercises do I have to do? I dont have the book that you listed somewhere above.Mvdalenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04470441835592936875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3702669429782703593.post-75855944416258178142017-02-06T15:26:58.832+02:002017-02-06T15:26:58.832+02:00Fascinating! That makes a lot of sense. By the way...Fascinating! That makes a lot of sense. By the way, have you ever considered applying the TMS healing methods to your stutter? You would be a pioneer ... it seems that nobody is trying that avenue. I myself am working in that direction, but quite gently. I'm not as radical as Dr Sarno and I don't want to throw all my fluency techniques out of the window, but, these days, each time I feel that I might stutter I tell myself that the stutter could be a distraction created by the subconscious to distract me away from negative feelings around speaking / communicating / other people / other still unidentifiied hidden feelings.Peter Louwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11762124725640299873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3702669429782703593.post-75786451685645181812017-02-06T02:46:54.884+02:002017-02-06T02:46:54.884+02:00Interesting thoughts. We could also argue that phy...Interesting thoughts. We could also argue that physical TMS pain, like stuttering, can have a social penalty and therefore can do harm. By the way, I asked a TMS psychologist who worked with Dr. Sarno for many years about whether he had ever had a patient with a stutter that went away along with the resolution of TMS symptoms, and here is what he said:<br /><br />"I treated one individual who developed a severe stutter during early childhood in the midst of profound family disruption. When I met him, his stutter had resolved although it would recur in a milder version during periods of extreme stress. Since he developed his TMS symptomatology as an adult, I can't allege a relationship between the resolution of both his stutter and his TMS symptomatology. However, it was apparent in retrospect that both the stutter and the TMS developed in response to emotionally challenging circumstances."Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11573913416415587225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3702669429782703593.post-29974953460059174222017-02-05T18:17:05.607+02:002017-02-05T18:17:05.607+02:00Hi Adam. Very interesting. But the factor of low s...Hi Adam. Very interesting. But the factor of low stress when speaking to oneself, or with a baby or pet, must also be considered. Various disorders improve under zero stress conditions. According to some theories, stuttering is organic (physical), perhaps due to neurotransmitter imbalances in the brain, and stress makes these worse. I wonder what the TMS doctor would say to that. Personally I'm not too sure about the comments on fear. Fear is a natural response to potential harm. I feel it's unrealistic to try and reduce the fear of stuttering, because it's a fact that stuttering can do harm - it can have social penalties. I feel there could be other ways to deal with stuttering as a possible TMS manifestation. A first principle is that the subconscious mind needs to be convinced that the problem is indeed psychological. Various avenues have been developed by TMS experts to achieve just that.Peter Louwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11762124725640299873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3702669429782703593.post-812722216695297042017-02-03T06:48:33.138+02:002017-02-03T06:48:33.138+02:00I have just spoken with a TMS doctor for about ten...I have just spoken with a TMS doctor for about ten minutes about whether stuttering, at least in my case, is a manifestation of TMS. She says it is highly likely that it is indeed a TMS manifestation (but she doesn't know of anyone who has rid themselves of it through TMS healing) because I (and most stutterers as far as I know) are fluent when we talk to ourselves, this proves that it is not a physical problem. If it was a physical problem, stuttering would occur in any speaking situation, even talking to one's self. <br /><br />She recommended thinking about times when I haven't stuttered at all, when I haven't been thinking of stuttering. The fear of stuttering is likely perpetuating the stuttering, just as the fear of pain perpetuates the pain in TMS. When people stop being afraid of the pain, the pain can go away. So she says to regard the speech pattern issues the same way. <br /><br />Now where is that person who can prove this hypothesis!Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11573913416415587225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3702669429782703593.post-62176434918875372262017-01-31T20:19:03.125+02:002017-01-31T20:19:03.125+02:00I would not be surprised if the TMJ is in fact a c...I would not be surprised if the TMJ is in fact a camouflaged form of TMS. Maybe the central nervous system latched on to the stutter and associated it with the jaws and mouth. If my memory serves me, I seem to remember that TMJ has been mentioned somewhere in one of the many Facebook stutter groups; but it is not widespread there. Within the TMS community, TMJ is also thought to be a form of TMS. Have a look at Roxygirl's story in the TMS Wiki here: http://www.tmswiki.org/ppd/Temporomandibular_Joint_Syndrome_(TMJ)Peter Louwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11762124725640299873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3702669429782703593.post-58512836243768758312017-01-31T20:05:13.678+02:002017-01-31T20:05:13.678+02:00Many thanks for this! I hope someone will read his...Many thanks for this! I hope someone will read his book, do the exercises with stuttering in mind, and see if fluency increases. If so, it would strengthen the hypothesis that stuttering is a type of TMS ... I am considering buying his book, perhaps doing the exercises myself; but then I would need to earnestly BELIEVE that stuttering IS in fact TMS; and that would compromise my objectivity in this matter. Peter Louwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11762124725640299873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3702669429782703593.post-6450571040695342422017-01-31T20:00:06.108+02:002017-01-31T20:00:06.108+02:00I'm glad that you joined those groups! Also co...I'm glad that you joined those groups! Also consider joining the group in which I'm most active - "Stuttering Therapy Alternatives". As far as I know, only a minority are helped just by reading TMS books ... for most it seems to be a longer-term healing, and the TMS can return in other manifestations as it is tricky! For myself, I am much much better, and can be TMS-free for months, but when in stress it tends to return a little bit, though I now know how to deal with it, which is great. Peter Louwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11762124725640299873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3702669429782703593.post-82408900046626108722017-01-31T02:11:46.949+02:002017-01-31T02:11:46.949+02:00I also have TMJ, another TMS symptom, which starte...I also have TMJ, another TMS symptom, which started around the time I got braces. I used to think it was because of the stresses on my jaw from having braces, but I now believe TMS just used that incident as a trigger to create a chronic pain. I also wonder if that is somehow related to TMS inflicting parts of the body related to speech. Have you heard if TMJ is common with stutterers?Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11573913416415587225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3702669429782703593.post-42288103243460168112017-01-31T02:09:16.022+02:002017-01-31T02:09:16.022+02:00By the way, here is Dr. Schubiner's response:
...By the way, here is Dr. Schubiner's response:<br /><br />"Yes, I would certainly think that stuttering is a form of TMS.<br />In fact, I stuttered for a while when I was a child.<br />But I have not treated anyone with this using a TMS approach.<br />Let me know how it goes and if I can help, let me know as well.<br />Best, Howard"Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11573913416415587225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3702669429782703593.post-55345697403008030942017-01-31T02:04:09.484+02:002017-01-31T02:04:09.484+02:00Wow, that's quite a high percentage! It certai...Wow, that's quite a high percentage! It certainly starts building a case. I wonder if the kind of person who would follow and participate in a blog on a health disorder would likely have a perfectionist personality. A survey of a more broad sample of the stuttering population would also be enlightening. I just joined both of these groups on Facebook, and will check out that Jan 26 post when I'm approved. I am attempting to get over my TMS symptoms and my subconscious seems to be putting up quite a long, epic struggle to hold on, more so than people with far more debilitating symptoms than me who have been cured just by reading Sarno's books or visiting him. This really makes me wonder if childhood stuttering is a part of TMS, because otherwise TMS might have long ago disappeared with the knowledge from Sarno's books, as it has for so many others. Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11573913416415587225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3702669429782703593.post-60176602930394492612017-01-30T11:15:22.069+02:002017-01-30T11:15:22.069+02:00As with all such theories, the proof of the puddin...As with all such theories, the proof of the pudding lies in the eating. It would be great if somebody could actually apply the TMS healing principles to his/her own stuttering. That would mean, firstly, that the person would have to totally BELIEVE that stuttering is TMS-based; because the subconscious mind needs to be convinced that it no longer needs to distract attention away from the inner conflict by causing stuttered speech.Peter Louwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11762124725640299873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3702669429782703593.post-62496280922558960222017-01-30T10:52:32.211+02:002017-01-30T10:52:32.211+02:00Many thanks, Adam, I would love to hear his answer...Many thanks, Adam, I would love to hear his answer! If stuttering is indeed a form of TMS, it would mean that the psychological approach to stuttering, which was current in the first part of the 20th century, will need to be re-visited. At that time psychoanalysis for stuttering was not effective, but then also at that time psychology was still in its infancy. Interestingly, in my poll on perfectionism on this blog, 52 people (83%) from a total of 62 people who stutter stated that they are perfectionists. That I find interesting because perfectionism is also a major feature of TMS sufferers. Are you a member of the TMS group on Facebook? By coincidence, this weekend I took part in a discussion on the relationship between stuttering, SD (spasmodic dysphonia, another speech disorder) and TMS. If you are a member of the "Stuttering Community" Facebook group, have a look at the post started by Bob Paton on 26 Jan.Peter Louwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11762124725640299873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3702669429782703593.post-12661783057299567382017-01-30T10:15:55.573+02:002017-01-30T10:15:55.573+02:00For me, the TMS is definitely still active as an a...For me, the TMS is definitely still active as an adult! It would be really interesting to do a study of adult stutterers who have stuttered since childhood, and see the percentage who exhibit TMS personality traits and symptoms. If the percentage is very high, that would indicate a high probability of correlation! I have just emailed Dr. Schubiner to ask him if he has ever had a patient whose lifelong speech disfluency resolved along with resolution of TMS symptoms. Will share what he says here!Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11573913416415587225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3702669429782703593.post-50235174640437075982017-01-29T20:43:48.392+02:002017-01-29T20:43:48.392+02:00A big question for me (if stuttering is indeed a f...A big question for me (if stuttering is indeed a form of TMS) is whether the TMS is still active in adulthood, or whether it was only present during childhood. It could be that the TMS only existed when we were children, and left its mark and did its damage in the form of stuttering with which we are now saddled. If that is the case, TMS treatment would probably have no effect in adulthood. But if the TMS is still active in adults who stutter, then maybe it could be very helpful!Peter Louwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11762124725640299873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3702669429782703593.post-33686594796791197712017-01-29T20:21:29.705+02:002017-01-29T20:21:29.705+02:00Hi Adam, it's a great question and I am also l...Hi Adam, it's a great question and I am also looking for an answer. As far as I know, the relationship between stuttering and TMS has not received much attention. Similarly not much is known whether TMS treatment would help people who stutter. The only serious article which I could find about the issue is the blog article by Dr Howard Schubiner, who is a medical doctor and a TMS practitioner. I will definitely pursue this issue though and write more about it and will try to get more people interested. If stuttering is indeed a type of TMS, everybody will have to go back to the drawing board and re-think the nature and treatment of stuttering ... it would be quite revolutionary. But I see a long road ahead of trying to convince people, because not only is TMS still not recognised by the medical fraternity, stuttering itself is regarded currently as a neurological issue, and a psychological approach such as TMS would go against the grain of current research and expertise. And people who stutter tend to follow the ideas of mainstream experts and research. But then, maybe change is needed ... here is the link to the article of Dr Schubiner, if you haven't already seen it: http://www.unlearnyourpain.com/blog/mbs-blog-31-the-king%E2%80%99s-speech-as-mind-body-syndrome-finding-your-voice-and-reclaiming-your-life/Peter Louwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11762124725640299873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3702669429782703593.post-61082835273333611462017-01-29T08:41:25.188+02:002017-01-29T08:41:25.188+02:00Peter, thanks for researching and posting on the p...Peter, thanks for researching and posting on the possible link between TMS and stuttering! I myself have TMS and have stuttered since early childhood. After reading Steve Ozanich's books and journaling, I have found so many links between stuttering and my other TMS symptoms, it really makes me wonder. Also, John Stossel had TMS pain and is a stutterer, and The Great Pain Deception makes a strong case that Thomas Jefferson had the Type T TMS personality in addition to his stuttering. Have you yet heard of anyone whose stuttering they'd had from early childhood was "cured" when they overcame symptoms that are more proven to be TMS such as back pain?Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11573913416415587225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3702669429782703593.post-86052245002064633852016-08-04T14:29:37.292+02:002016-08-04T14:29:37.292+02:00Thank you, Anonymous! Maybe this is the final miss...Thank you, Anonymous! Maybe this is the final missing link in the puzzle that is stuttering (together with the vocal-cord freeze which happens prior to stuttering)? My own fluency has improved further since I changed to this thinking about stuttering. Do read one of the TMS books with all this in mind. I am now re-reading The Great Pain Deception in this light.Peter Louwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11762124725640299873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3702669429782703593.post-42324626984416132022016-08-04T02:24:22.958+02:002016-08-04T02:24:22.958+02:00Wow!!.... I can so relate to this article.... seem...Wow!!.... I can so relate to this article.... seems like what I've always thought as a kid growing up as to why I began to suddenly stammer at age 6.. interesting article something to defiantly take on board & read up on more.. thanks for posting! Much appreciated Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com